Auction Takeover: How to Prevent Podium Piracy

Stellar fundraising auctions presents black tie and tails brought to you by Sojourn Ventures and greater giving and featuring your hosts, fundraising auctioneers Greg Caroga and Devon Bell.

Welcome to black tie and tails, where we take you behind the scenes of the wonderful world of fundraising auctions to tell tales of triumph and trap.

I'm your host, Greg Caroga, and I'm joined by my co-host, Stephan Bell. Hello, all one of us is recovering from.

A cold that.

Would be me. And so there's nothing worse for an auctioneer than than than the fear of losing one's voice.

Yeah, the voice, right. It's like.

Do anything but don't take the money maker.

It's it. It's funny to think of.

That as the instrument that that we utilize and rely on and lean into the most. But but I I stopped going to sporting events and yelling I'll go to a sporting event and clap but I I know I used to yell at loud enough for the athletes to hear me yeah and and.

Don't. I'm sure you've done this. I know I've done this.

I can’t wait.

I'll do a back-to-back and I'm gauge two events in a row, right? Do a back-to-back two nights in a row and after the first night I'm gauging how lost my voice is because I've only got like 20 hours to get it back on course. Yeah, exactly.

Right.

Yeah, throw coat tea.

And good night's sleep. There you go.

So I'm I'm I'm recovering so bear with the the strained auctioneer voice. But but this episode we're going to talk auction takeover where one person manages to take over and make your fundraising event all about them, and we deal. We deal with some strange people and some strange personalities.

We deal with our share personalities, don't.

We devote. Yeah, of course. We are ourselves personalities, but we mix with a lot of other ones as well. That's for.

Sure. And and when it's in the service of fundraising like bring the personality.

One right, like if you're going to leverage your celebrity or your personality to to help us raise more money for the cause, then I'm all in, like, take the stage. I will always give vintners or donors of auction lots of where it's relevant you.

Know of like.

Donors of auction lots the opportunity to come on stage and and make the giving about them in the sense that.

People support people and people are always looking to purchase relationships, you know, so the chef event, bring the chef on stage, but but occasionally, occasionally we run into somebody who decides that the entire event is meant to be about.

To.

Them they're often a person who's important to the event. Maybe it's a big donor. Maybe it's a celebrity. What you say it real glibly like, oh, I'll always let someone come on up and talk about it. But we both know that's dangerous territory. What? I often tell clients is, hey, if you're giving a lot of money.

Then, if you want anonymity, you get it. And if you want lots of credit, you get.

That too, and if you want to take.

The mic. Well, let's talk about that then.

Yeah. And and I say it glibly, we every client we sit down, we have a meeting a week before the event to talk about all of the auction lot donors and how best to acknowledge and honor their donation from the stage. And I say, look, it goes from just calling out their name.

To indicating that they're in the room to having them waved to having them stand up at their table and wave, having them come stand on stage and wave to having them come stand on stage and grab the microphone and talk. And that last part like you say, that's where it starts to get really dangerous.

And and I'm going to launch into the first story I've got because it it is the prime example of this. I was working with an organization that was a science based organization and they had this board member who wanted to give a keynote speech at their gala and I thought.

OK. And this board member was going to talk about the new products that they were producing, it's it was software based and and they were doing something revolutionary and they wanted to come in and talk about this new product. I said, how is this? How is this relevant to your cause? And they're like well.

That he's on the board, that's that's a thing. He's on the board. So we're like, OK, and so and and he comes in and we get to the night of and they're like, yeah, he's going.

How it's relevant, that's.

To do his thing.

For 20 minutes.

Ohh.

And it's and it's rate during prime time, right, like we get in, we get in, we give everybody their 15 to 20 minutes, their Chitty chatty time as you call it, we go. It's time to start the program and he gets on stage and he starts doing this.

Video and slideshow presentation demonstration of this software that he's.

OK, Steve Jobs and it's going and I mean at least Steve Jobs would have brought his checkbook, right? I mean, this guy is going and it's going and and I went into another, you know, they said it'll he'll talk for a little bit. It'll be fine. He goes for 20 minutes and I I had to leave the room and go into a different place where I could.

Focus on my script and and and just try to to bring it back to to focus and you know and then I should back up and say he's on the board and he's donating an auction lot. I'm like, OK, great. We've got this guy zoning, an auction lot. So at the very least, like, we'll be able to leverage his celebrity for that, but 20 minutes.

Of unrelated.

Keynote speech, product development, product pitch and and he was very proud.

Right.

Of what he's going to say.

I was just gonna.

It's.

Stuff he's really into really, into.

Talking about this stuff.

So, so thrilled. So I mean and and and when you've got 20 minutes, you can really go through a.

Lot of detail.

About what it is.

You're developing. I mean, we got we got granular.

And and so we get to the place where we're starting the auction and then, you know finally like 20 something minutes later.

And be going with the auction and one of the auction.

That's is to go to his studio and get a behind the scenes tour. His software was, you know, somewhat kid facing and so somebody's going to buy it for their kids and and go into the.

Studio. And so we're like, whoa.

And like gamey kind.

Of stuff? Yeah. Without without getting sued. Yeah.

Educational, OK.

You know, software programs for. Kids. Exactly something like that. And so the.

We get some bidding going and it's one of the hotter lots in the night and I'm like, sweet, good this, you know, it is paying off, right? And this woman buys it and it's, you know, the crowd goes crazy. But like, yeah, it's and and so like, OK, well, at least the trade off was somewhat worth it in the sense that we, you know, he took a bunch of time, but he had an auction lot. That was one of the hottest.

The night suite have our wrap meeting. Everything's great. Everything's happy coming back, following up the next year. Start trying to plan as we do months in advance. Let's talk about the auction.

Lots. Well can.

You go back to him and get the tour of the studio. Can we rely on that again? Oh, no, that's not going to come in this year.

Oh well.

Why not? Well, you know, so this it's hard to tell the story with the straight face. So what happened was, is the woman who bought it took her kids to the studio and totally enjoyed her time there with him. And he and.

Wait his time there with her. Ohh, and so mutual enjoyment.

Huh.

He divorced his wife, she divorced her husband. The two of them got married and it blew up the board. It changed the nature of this.

Ohh.

Ohh.

Oh.

Organization and its event like like all the personal tragedy aside of kids losing their parents and all of a sudden going, I mean like, you know, like and all of that aside like the.

Sure, sure.

It had on this organization was detrimental in the long term. It didn't just ruin one auction. It ruined multiple auctions because the following year everybody had divided into camps, right and the.

Oh really?

People, Housewives of San Francisco.

Real Housewives of fundraising on everybody was mad, and we didn't have his donation back, and she wasn't there.

So.

Make a donation and it was. It was. I haven't.

Seen an individual a takeover, an auction to that extent before and and really not sense. I mean I've seen people take over auction since and we'll get to the Horror Story of the week later in today's episode, but I haven't seen anybody take over an auction in such a self-serving sort of way.

And then ruin an organization in such a self-serving sort of way, right? I mean, it was. This was one of the first stories when I would tell this story to people. They would be like, Oh my gosh, you have to write a book. And I always would respond with.

I don't want.

To get sued, yeah.

Yeah, names changed to protect the innocent and the guilty.

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Now, Devon, not every takeover happens in the moment tonight of some takeovers start in advance.

Right, the the takeover can start as early as the consulting process, which is of course an important part of the auction. I was doing an event. This was a couple of years ago.

For.

An organization, he said, trying to be generic and they it was like a public servants and they had an organization and it was a big event. I mean, not massive, but not tiny. It was like 550 people.

So just yeah, that's that's big. That's just that's.

It's pretty big, yeah.

Just beyond the realm of like.

It's it's not personal at that point.

That's right, 550 people is where the farthest people away are pretty far away. Like you better have the movers and the Shakers in the front 10 tables, that kind of thing.

So they were partying hard and they wanted to party that you could tell that was happening during the reception. So they got him in running late and they had a big program, you know, someone introducing the person who introduces the person giving some awards, having a remarks from lots of people who were involved.

And.

We there was a point where a guy got up who gave, I guess, what kind of amounted to a keynote speech. He was kind of one of the main speakers and he was very engaging and a lot of people in the audience knew him. And he was funny and he spoke for 18 minutes. So.

It's a long time.

Quite your not quite your 20, but 18 minutes. And so he talks and about 2/3 of the way through his talk, he's just getting laughter and talking from the heart.

A long time.

Hurt. And I had that moment where I should be up there, right. Why aren't I up there?

Right now your alarm.

Put me up there. Fundraiser. Spider Sense is going off. You're like, I want to be.

You're.

Raising this money right now.

Yeah, you should be. I should be asking for the money as soon as he gets his next laugh. I get up there and I look on the program and there's like, multiple pages of stuff past him. So we go and it goes. So that's at about 45 minutes, was pretty sweet spot, right? That 45 minutes is when he's doing his thing. I I want, I need to be up there. And of course during consulting.

Yeah.

I argued hard for this, and the head of the organization.

So obviously he's very important, said said. No, we need to have the auction at the end and I said OK, that's a big, robust program, you know, that is going to be the end of the meal. So not only was it a big, robust program, not only do we have the auction the end, but they were way behind behind.

The timeline slipped. Ohh, get out.

I know it's hard to believe, but running late. OK, next thing running later, let's do the next.

Thing ohh we're.

Running really late, I could see the people, the AV people.

Were tearing their hair.

So.

And in a room of 550 people, it's it's hard to keep those back tables engaged. Like you said, that you need the movers and the Shakers up front. And the longer the program goes where you are not engaging them and it's not, it's not a direct connection like they don't know the people who are on stage are they cause because friends of friends of friends.

Oh yeah.

That's right.

You there, there's, there's a lot of leeway in that. But, but like 45 minutes and 550 people and then now you're.

Way behind this is just getting better and better.

It it it's like a 550 people Petri dish and then not paying attention. Disease is spreading throughout the throughout the space, right? And I could see it happening. So they go on and on forever. It keeps going. It keeps going at the end. They do a big ending ceremony thing with like.

Bagpipes and like a big, huge events.

Yeah, the big huge to do. It's a grand finale before the auction. Ohh yeah, we haven't got to the auction yet. They do the big grand finale. They're marching through with the bagpipes. You can't hear a damn thing. I check my watch.

They came into the they came into the dining room 2 hours and 45 minutes ago. Oh no. So the bagpipes finish up and they're like, OK, get get up there. All right, get up there and sell your little heart out. So I got up there. And to be fair, there auction lots. They only had a couple.

And they were nice.

Really connected to their mission and to their culture. And so they did, OK. But as far as leaving money in the room, I saw many people didn't have their paddles because, you know, they got up and walked over to their friends table, and now they're drinking drinks with their with their friends. So it was a takeover.

Before the event ever started.

And I had the the yucky. I have a bad feeling about this feeling throughout and what do you know, it was well served.

And those those, those kind of takeovers, those personality clashes early on, they're hard. They're hard, especially when it's the head of the organization who's stepping in, because what do you do?

You know, like, OK, this is like all you can say.

I I tell people in consulting all the time.

My consulting is advice based on experience having done lots of these events, but at the end of the day I'm an employee. You hire me if you want to do it your way. I will do them your way as best as I possibly can and but it's just so challenging to to to hear that buzz in the room and know that that buzz is potential.

Brighton.

That is just dissipating right before your very eyes.

Oh yeah. Ohh yeah. Sweet spot. Ohh, goodbye, sweet spot. Goodbye. I'll see you in an hour and a half.

When I take.

The stage? Yeah, it was a it was an adventure. But. And then, ironically afterwards.

Yeah.

They said Ohh, that was really tough. I could tell that was tough. Great job by you. It didn't have to be tough. It didn't have to be tough.

Right, right. This is these. These were speed bumps. We could have avoided. I know a smoother Rd. Instead, you're watching the car pull off into the distance. You're stuck on the side of some dark desert highway.

Yes, yes.

Nice. I see what you did there.

Cool breeze in your hair. Yeah, right.

Warm smell of the donors.

We're going to end it.

Right there. There's just bad jokes approaching train usually.

Usually in a situation like that, if there's a light at the end of the.

Tunnel. It's an oncoming train. Train. Missile imminent.

Yeah.

Why don't you hit?

OK.

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It's difficult when you know that somebody's taking over and you can't do anything about it, right? You the like the the head of the organization and and and the keynote speaker. I had a situation where somebody took over in the heat of the moment and nobody knew what to do.

It was it it it. It still stands out as one of the most flabbergasting auctions I've ever done. And and that says.

A lot, right?

Yeah, right.

And has done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

And so I'm doing an event in Los Angeles and it's at a major donors house, and we're in their backyard on the tennis court. It's a big, beautiful, as, you know, big, beautiful set up in LA and there happens to be a one of his neighbors is a famous celebrity who's in movie. He's been in lots of movies.

La La.

Back in the day and his wife and this, this celebrities wife is talking to the donor at the beginning of the night and they're on. They're on friendly terms talking about having dinner and coming over for dinner at the donors house. And that kind of stuff. And. And so I think, like, OK, she has cash.

Jay, with the donor and therefore with the organization.

Some guy at the front table.

Just says I'll do 10. Oh yeah, and we're.

Like gangster move.

Total and he had this deep New York accent, which I won't.

Even attempt to do.

Deeper guys like.

I'll do 10 and I'm like, awesome. Did anybody want to go 11 right now and?

Nobody, so boom, done sold $10,000 and he says he's doing it in honor of.

Get going on another auction lot and and she's bidding again and I think, OK, well, this is, you know this is.

Fun she's playing.

Around and she winds up winning it and she yells and this really thick Russian accent.

Yeah.

I you know, I bought this and no man has the balls to bid against me and and we're like, OK, you know, like it suddenly, like hurt like it it it just it just took a a strange turn. And but she's been on a bunch of stuff and been on a bunch of stuff.

OK, OK.

Yay for you.

And and and, but I'm still a little confused as to all of the relationships at play and not sure how to handle like like she said that rate to the guy who had bought the first law, like no man has the balls to bid against me. I was like.

That's a pretty heavy-handed gauntlet to throw down, so we get to the, you know, go through a few more auction lots and she's talking all sorts of trash throughout the auction. And I'm not used to.

Having somebody auction. Ohh, there's.

Yeah. Is there oxygen lubricant? I smell auction lubricant in this party. OK, OK.

There is a lot of oxygen lubricant. I should have backed up and said like like and and and it and it appears that the the the her portion of the auction is getting more lubricated as the auction goes on because it's it's getting.

We.

Inhibitions lowered within reason, right?

Right. Yeah. Like I'm all while I make the joke that that alcohol is the lubricant of my career. But I also still want everybody to be able to drive home safe and make decisions. They don't regret the next morning. And that's not where this story is going, because during the funded need while I'm making the pitch for this organization.

She comes up and says I want to say some.

One thing, and she's standing down at the foot of the stage and I'm like, oh, you know, I wish we could, but I don't have a microphone for you. And she says that's not the problem. And she turns around and starts yelling at the crowd, right yelling. And I'm like, ohh, they can't hear you down there. Right. I'm like, I'm trying to. I'm trying to put barriers in front of her that she will find insurmountable.

And and.

She does not find barriers insurmountable because she's like uh, especially this stage. She's like uh. And so she turns around, she's.

Wearing a knee length.

Cocktail dress, sparkly type that doesn't have a lot of flexibility to it. She flops over like face first onto the stage that's coated in black astroturf. She grabs like a piece of stage with.

Each fist and just hoists herself onto the stage, just like kicking her little feet as she gets up there, she turns around and, like, straightens up and then, like, you know, dust off real ladylike, you know, like, brushes all the for us, all the astroturf off.

Over knees and she turns around, she starts yelling at the crowd. Right. And what she's yelling is you know how much she appreciates this country and this organization. And and you know how she wants people to give. But I'm like, nobody can hear you because you don't have a microphone. And she goes OK and she goes over to the podium and I'm looking at the sound guy.

That's odd.

And I'm giving him that. Don't do it. Don't do it.

They're my cutter. Mine. He's just like, and he just, like, turns it up. And so she starts talking. So now she's and everybody's like.

No, no man has the balls to shush me.

No man. And and and and so up until that point like it had been the first few tables, had heard her and had known what was going on. Now the entire crowd is in on her crazy right. Like we are all and I'm and. And you know this one of the challenges is.

At what point are you the good guy or the bad guy? Oh, yeah.

When?

Yeah.

You.

Pull somebody off the stage and it's a real serious difficult question to ask because I tried as soon as I **** *** a bidder, I have alienated support for the organization and as soon as you know, as soon as, as soon as somebody is so mad at me that they no longer want to bid, I am. That's the worst part of my job.

So at what point, at what point are you supposed to play the?

Heavy if they're doing 11 minutes of wandering stream of consciousness.

That is hurting your event, right, which which is that you got two evils to.

Deal with here, right? And I don't know. Like she and her husband are are very tight with the guy whose house this is and he's a big name and. And you know this. The philanthropic circles in which we're playing right now, right for this event and.

And so I'm I, you know, I don't want to marry him. You know, I'm not sure how, like at what point do I just like push her off the microphone or say thank you so much. I appreciate, you know. And then I look and I see the guys who are running the event and guy run events. No offense.

Are the worst cause cause?

Because.

Guys plan for all the things that.

Aren't gonna happen and fail to see the things that are or have a plan in place. So we didn't have a stage manager. We didn't have somebody who could come and say oh.

Like oh, this is really.

Sweet. We need to have the stage there, right? Yeah.

Someone like the Bo Peep hook.

So.

They're looking at me going. You get her.

Off this like.

And I'm looking at them going. You get her off this. They're like, everybody's going back forward like nobody wants to be the jerk in this situation who like. And so finally, I look at the AV guy and I'm like, you gotta, like, cut this now and I and and I look. And as soon as she takes a breath and there's a place.

And I'm like, go turn it off. I'm like, that is so lovely. Thank you so much. That's such a great example of why we're here.

And you know, that's why we're here. Now, let's try to raise some money, you know, and go back to it. Hey, everybody. And. And as she were as they're as guys are, like, pulling her off the stage, she's like, no, I have more to go. I bet you do. You know, I bet you.

Let's give her a big hand. Big hand. Thank you for your remarks and Charles.

Like.

Warren, I'm like.

Do and and later on.

The person who guy whose house it was is.

Pitching his auction lot because there was an auction lot to have dinner with him and.

She jumps up and says that she and her husband will make an appearance and come and she and she puts her arm around him and he like, slaps her arm off as like, don't you touch me? And I was like, ohh, I wish I'd.

Great.

Known, right? Yeah.

I would have Bo Peep hooked.

You. I wish I'd known I would have. I would have pulled the strings on this parachute a long.

Time ago self destruct button.

Oh oh, and and I know that you've had your own instance of because because it's bad when somebody's when you're planning so.

It's I. It's bad enough when you can see the train coming, but I also know that you've had your own instance of somebody derailing your fundraising and and like taking over your auction in the middle of it in in the not most pleasant way possible.

Yeah. We I say it all the time in the consulting.

Let's center this around the fund to need from a feeling perspective, from a party perspective and from the exes and those fundraising perspective, the funding need is the centerpiece, the strongest thing we got. We hit them with it right at the fund and need we're going to get people in their fields and then we're going to go for the irrational philanthro.

Right. And there's we we've both seen when it's done right, it can be just right. You just hit the fever pitch I've had before where they said they're bit and I could see people were tearing up and I didn't come up and add anything I said. I have nothing to add.

Who's in right? Right after after the emotional appeal, we should just say and and and I and. And when it comes to emotions and the fund, the need.

And yeah, yeah, who's in?

I always my perspective is that we form long term memories when there is an emotion attached to a moment and if we can make the fund that need.

Memorable. We're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want people analyzing and thinking about them. I want them in their in their fields. I want them caught up.

In the moment.

So this is an organization, an arts organization, but the event is partnered with a very wine centric organization. And so there's a lot of lots, there's dozens.

Wine auctions tend to.

Be long. That's right. And we love what? Yeah, we love wine. Wine is a place where the price list comes up a lot. Wine is a place where people spend money for cachet. Wine is a great place to raise money. So.

The.

It's also where there's a lot.

Of relationships to be sold.

Absolutely. Absolutely that's.

So I I love the wine part of it. And you know the enophile aspect us here in Northern California, we we come across that all the time and it's great bring it on. So this wine maker, this one famous wine maker with which is a fabulous wine maker and I love their wines.

They're sponsoring the event, though, so the wines on the table are this wine, and they have a special representative there from the winery, and they're they're they have their fingers in the lot of the event. Love it. Right. So halfway through our dozens and dozens of lot just hours up on stage selling wine.

The head, the founder and still head of the event gets up to talk about it and we don't script her remarks because she's feeling it from her heart. She doesn't need a script like she can talk about this all day long. This is her passion, you know, it's her joy and talks about the wonderful things they do in the community and the wonderful things they do with the arts.

And it's just spot on. It's just pitch perfect and pitch lobbed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm getting ready. Oh, this is going to be great. I'm going to ask.

The money and I guess we didn't. I I encouraged her to speak from the heart and not be too scripted.

But maybe we should have been.

A little more scripted because she's giving her remarks and kind of looks around like she's getting done to someone to hand the mic to and I'm stepping up here, I go, turning off my mute.

You know, we're gonna ask for the money and she says, hey, wine person, the representative from the winery, you want to get up and say something.

And she goes, yes, I do. And she takes the mic right as if in slow mode. And I'm going.

And in that moment, I would be hoping like ohh, she's connected to the cause. She's gonna say something that makes us better. She's gonna, like, continue to like.

Right, right. So she gets up and takes the mic and starts talking about the wine that's on the table. And you know what? I don't fault her in the least. That's her job. She got sent there to do that. She's there to represent the wine. And so that's what she's doing. Hey, here's our new wines coming out. Hey, you could come tour the winery. Hey.

Check out these wines. I'm glad to talk to anyone after.

Words and she does maybe 8-8 minutes of this and I'm watching the conversation come up and the clinking get louder and I'm going. Oh, it's. It was so right after. It was like that moment when I was going to grab it. And then we talked about wine for. We talked about wine for 8 minutes. Again, I don't blame the founder of the organization.

Right.

I should have given.

Under instruction of. Here's we're going to do right, right then. And I don't blame the wine person because they're representing what they're supposed to do. But they took over right at the moment when I was supposed to do my thing. So next time, maybe we'll script that one a little.

More well, and that brings us to a good place to talk about takeaways, because I mean, I think.

That that a lot of these situations could be addressed with some, some, some planning, right, you you have a point person have a plan, there's going to be a keynote.

Speech. Ask to see.

Get right asked to see the keynote speech. If you're working with somebody who to make sure that there's a a run of show that is agreed to and adhered to because that on that last example of yours, it would have been really simple just for the the founder to know as soon as I'm done, I hand it back to Devon as soon as I'm done, I hand it back to like the importance of that.

Right, not trying to live.

Into him, right? Right. I.

Relevance.

Mean. Well, I mean, because there's, like there's, I don't know what.

They felt was to be gained by offering the MIC to a random other person, right? Like she was just feeling the love so much. Does anybody else feeling the love of the?

White person like yeah, I'm feeling the.

I love my winery. Let's let's talk about that for a while and and you know, I don't even necessarily need to see the remarks because I have found when someone speaks not polished from the heart, even haltingly, even awkwardly, sometimes that's real. And that's human and that.

Yeah.

Is, you know when you have.

And that will get a crowd's.

Attention better than the most. Like I work with.

Yes.

News people all the time and then.

Yeah, I was gonna say exactly that. When you have the newscasters, your MC, they're so polished that it sounds like they drunk.

But as soon as the person's.

Up there and goes, I'm kind of nervous and I've never been.

In front of a.

Crowd this big and everybody's like ohh yeah.

Look at you.

You know, and and anytime, anytime. I'm I I'm watching somebody who's gonna speak for the fun, the need or you know or speak at some point during the course of the evening. And they look nervous or they look like especially youth. If we have youth or participating in an organization I will always take them aside and say hey couple of points like not to be the middle-aged white guy.

Yeah, yeah.

Offering unsolicited advice, but but here.

Here comes.

And but what I will tell them is for starters, like if you mess up off of your script.

Script, right? If you're reading a script.

And you mess up only.

You know, right, you don't have to say, oh, I meant to say this because then and secondly the crowd.

Yeah.

Is going to love.

You. Yeah. You do not have to, like, they're going to will your success. So you can't screw up. You only you know you've screwed up if you do and and just embrace the moment with the crowd.

The crowds. Crowds go in for those like you said, the unscripted or the unrehearsed, or the unprofessional speakers.

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree. And I I kind of want that that you don't have to give me, you don't have to give me a.

Script, but might I tell you that 3 minutes is better than six and six minutes is better than 9?

And I think part of that also is designate a bad guy, somebody who isn't a auctioneer, who doesn't have any relationship with the crowd, who isn't going to impact the fundraising to come and intervene. If you need intervention. I did an event once where we had a a teenage kid who.

Was speaking from the heart and was doing great and realized 3 minutes in. Oh my gosh, the crowd is just love.

To this, they are listening to only to me, and kept going and and it was like and at that point it's the same thing. Everybody the crowd.

Oh yeah.

Was like ohh.

Oh.

They loved this kid and at certain point I'm like, we gotta do some fundraising here. So have somebody else be the bad guy because as we know, as we've said, crowd has a limited attention span from the moment they sit.

No.

Down for dinner to the moment they're done mentally is about 90 minutes.

Yeah. And we're always playing this funny game where we go up there with a lot of authority, but as you like to say all the time, we have no power. We have no power for them to pay.

Attention, we have no power for them to raise.

Help them to.

You know when you are selling the.

Just a little or just try to get them to say say yes and the slightest thing and go. OK and then no backsies, no backsies, no good vaccines, no big back seats. You can find all of this information in an accompanying blog post on our website. That's stellar SF dot.

Yeah, it backs.

OK.

Com and of course you can find our podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, YouTube and all of your favorite podcasters distribution channels, which they must have because they're here now. But we appreciate you being here. Thank you for listening to Black tie and tails. Be sure to tune in next time for competition. What happens when your fundraising event is on the same night?

Says, oh, I don't know the World Series.